Speaking as a user, not Moderator, I had some small investment (200L?) directly with LLB&T, not much.  Most of my dealing was with a part of LLCRA I think, which I never could figure out just where/how this fit in -- but I think it was controlled by [Start EDIT] Sully OKelly [END EDIT , originally I mentioned "S**** N******' and a "?", but have changed this to the correct name.  My great apologies for any intimation of wrongdoing to S**** N******"] and not really "under" the L&L umbrella.  I lost quite a bit there suddenly with no information forthcoming before and after Sully disappeared, just the monthly debiting of a management fee and then I notice the principle is gone.  I  should have found more places to be more informed as to exactly whom was controlling/doing what and what recourses exist when an av disappeares-- my lesson learned.

Having said that, I am not opposed to Lindsay approaching the users/traders here as she is saying -- she hasn't made application to formally list here (which all know will mean REALLY INTENSE scrutiny from our users!) but is now she's just seeking our (user's) impressions and thoughts.  My thought is that I don't want to see the all past dramas re-iterated and rehashed here, but yet it will be hard to "go forward with something new" since people will want to understand and judge the future based on what had happened in the past.  I wish I could offer more constructive feedback -- I appreciate you are trying, and I guess I'll ask that people read up at CapeX some of the past and/or contact Lindsay directly.

Last edited by InsouciantYue (2008-08-20 17:41:12)

Understood Cocky and I think Insouciant got the gist of where I was going which is why this was the position taken first.  Coming from SL CapEx and WSE, an exchange run by the members is an aspect of SL trading I have not experienced so forgive my ignorance in that right.

Duke, actually, a lot of traders at ISE are either vest in the L&L Brand, know me personally, or have in the past so I did not list a ton of background information.  I do not want to reiterate all the excess drama as what's done is done and we move on from here.

Insouciant, it was Sully Okelly who disappeared with money and left the brand with undisclosed obligations, not Scott Nestler.  Scott is a board member.  Currently, any shares in LCA are still held but they will be converted to the new tickler as all L&L companies are being combined since they can no longer function separately due to the banking ban and the disappearance of key operators.

My intentions here are not to bypass the traders or management but to understand what the traders here would be looking for.  Of course, I have shareholders waiting for us to list, most already traders here, but I want to be sure that the move is the best for LLC and ISE as listing would bear no fruit without support from the platform.

Again, Duke, my apologies if you feel that there has been a lack of information but it was my assumption that most of my shareholders are traders here as well as past customers and past shareholders or have follow the almost 2 years that the brand has been in operation.

I am currently still plugging away at our 60 day action plan that will include the information that Duke is probably looking for but feel free to a specific question.

I'm sorry, and will apologise to Scott Nestler.  I did mix his name up with Sully OKelly.

The "history" is out there, and I am not trying to hide it nor remove it's existance globally.  A wise investor SHOULD seek it out and examine it!  This may seem a little convoluted, but I am simply saying (and personally, not as Moderator) that I wish there was a way to keep the ugliness from being paraded out here in these forums since it exists elsewhere.  Perhaps discussion here using links to supporting statements and evidence elsewhere will be good.

And yes, I think much more will be said if this progresses to an applying for IPO here.

According to some old records as well as data from your site, it seems to me you have sold up to 600,000 shares LLL and up to 200,000 shares LCA under the account LNLBT Miles. I also came across this site, but I now realize that I should have paid a little more attention to the date there. Nevertheless, we don't have to go into a yes-no discussion about this, since we have no way of verifying your claims.

lnlbtmiles wrote:

Also, Insouciant, I would NOT be listing IPO, SPO, or any offering for that matter.

This is more important info that I was looking for and is positive. Given the L&L status and history I would be strongly against any PO. However, it seems that your intentions for listing are to provide your shareholders with a platform to trade their shares on rather than to attract new money for a (thus far) failing company. Don't get me completely wrong - L&L on here would be a nice addition for the ISE to grow a little further upon too.

lnlbtmiles wrote:

If I am supposed to be a scammer and such

I don't say that anywhere. Given SL's anonymous nature, I start out with the only logical premise being that everyone could be a scammer and work from there. I did follow you a bit at the WSE back in the days by the way, but have overall neglected companies on the SLCAPEX due to the concerns I have with that exchange itself (and the massive scandals the exchange itself had too).

lnlbtmiles wrote:

do you really think I would still be here

Heck, Luke is still around as are many other major (known) scam artists.

Last edited by DukeMercy (2008-08-20 20:42:39)

I would agree on the Luke thing but Luke is also asking for more money.  I simply want to provide a platform for my shareholders and nothing more.  LLL was one of the first 25 public traded companies in SL when WSE first opened in January of 2007 and yes we sold 600k shares but kept a nice cushion of over 1.8 million linden to guarantee dividends for the second half of the fiscal year.  This money also helped L&L offset debt we took on from Touchet Group to open L&L Bank and Trust which hit at around 800k that was totally donated from LLL to refund the customers and start the bank.  Rodders can tell you first hand about that one.  I believe that Rodders was probably one of my longest shareholders/customers and I know he has made a lot of money on my stocks over the course of time. 

L&L Rentals and Sales has always done well but the addition of the banking structure, which was only done in response to the failure of TGC, deverted attention and I stepped into new waters as I then had to pay an astronomical price for a half working system and I see that in hindsight.  I will admit being a bit over zealous in my push for the brand in some right and probably not as studied as I should have been and in most cases, reacting too late.  I was the only bank in SL to drop interest rates below the National average based on RL interest rates than SL ones and that one month we did that, we were able to acquire 8 Dragons.....with the banking ban following 2 weeks later and after spending about $3000 in upgrades for the trading platform of the website for the brokerage. 

A few things happened here.  I would say I banked to much on SL staying the same or changing slowly and did not bank on an abrupt happening.  Had the banking ban not happened, our 6 month plan from January this year would have made us independent from customer deposits by May 2008 meaning we would have been at least 150% liquid if not more.  At the same time, I dove in without a wetsuit and started to drown under the weight of my own vision as I was the only one thinking it at the time.  I can honestly stand by my successes and my failures and still hold my head up knowing that I have not intentionally done anything wrong but more so under prepared for the market. 

Again, at the end of the day, I just want my shareholders to be able to trade.

Last edited by lnlbtmiles (2008-08-20 21:24:34)

My view is that I don't see an issue in L&L listing here, certainly the ISE would provide quite a good platform for your existing shareholders to trade. And it would certainly be interesting to have L&L on board here.

But I do share some of the skepticism if this is turned into an IPO as well. For me until you can turn L&L around, I don't think it would be advisable to do an IPO. Not only would it cause further controversy but it would be almost like trying to pay off a credit card with another one, you just sink deeper into debt.

I'm not against L&L enlisting at ISE and I agree with Duke about the request for an elaborate financial report and general information about future planning.

I also agree with Lindsay idea not to do any I/SPO.  Maybe, we should have a time limit for that. For example, if after one year the company is doing fine, ISE should allow Lindsay to move on.

Second condition I would like to see is a veto for her to sell any of her shares.  Maybe one year as well could be applied

Last edited by elialemorigi (2008-08-21 21:21:08)